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Old 07-30-2010, 08:53 AM
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C. Lind Aitken C. Lind Aitken is offline
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Default Wouldn't this be a kick in the pants!

All you legal researchers out there might want to check NJ statutes to see if NJ has a requirement as described in this article from Police One. (see last paragraph)

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SWAT Officer
with Lt. Dan Marcou


Would-be warriors in waiting: Getting help when you need it
Sir Robert Peel rightly said, "Police are the public and public are the police" ... particularly when you’re struggling with a suspect and need a citizen’s assistance
One survival tactic overlooked by officers who find themselves alone and in a bitter, undecided street struggle is to call for the back-up that is often standing all around them. Who could that be? Let’s look at the words of Sir Robert Peel, “The Father of Modern Policing.”

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Peel proclaimed, “...the police are the public and the public are the police: the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties, which are incumbent upon every citizen in the interest of community welfare and existence.”

Quite often, when officers are in these lone street battles they are surrounded by members of the community, yet few officers have been trained to consider asking a bystander for help. They are not aware that many states authorize officers to request and even demand assistance from citizens who are then bound by law to assist. Some of these statutes allow for officers to arrest citizens who refuse or fail to come to their aid when so ordered.

Naturally, There Are Concerns
Liability — Someone right now is saying, “What about liability?” The answer to that should be, “Survivability of officers should trump liability concerns at all times.”

Inability — Citizens are not trained to know what to do and but many may have an inability and a willingness to assist by following simple directions. Keep is simple. “Sir, I need your help. I have this arm back in a position to handcuff. Can you get the other arm and bring it to the same position and hold it there so I can handcuff this person?”

Refusal — It is a fact that you often arrest bad guys where their friends are, not where your friends are. Some will refuse, many will assist. When a citizen refuses, some statutes not only authorize an arrest of this citizen, their refusal puts that person in a precarious position later if they wish to claim the officer used an inappropriate level of force after refusing the officer’s request for assistance.

Professional Partners
There are many who work with law enforcement that may default to a stance of standing by and watching, but will likely leap to give aid if directed or requested. Fire fighters, probation and parole agents, security guards, and off-duty police officers will help when asked, but typically are trained to let you do your job unless asked.

Complainants are also a good source of assistance. They have a stake in the successful conclusion of the call and often will be willing to assist if you tell them what they should do.

A Word of Caution
When asking for assistance, be certain to identify yourself as a police officer and make it clear you are directing them to assist you. Then tell them exactly what it is that you want them to do.

A History of Citizen Assistance
In 1966, on the University of Austin Campus there was a citizen, who assisted Ramiro Martinez and Houston McCoy, when they confronted Charles Whitman, the tower sniper.

In 1970 a citizen picked up one of the four downed officers’ guns and drove off their attackers with gun fire in Newhall California, where those four officers died.

There were citizens who assisted — and even gave their lives — alongside police officers and fire fighters at the World Trade Center on September 11th.

In 2007, inside a Wendy’s in Salt Lake City Eric Fullerton, a Vietnam Veteran and former member of the 101st Airborne Division disarmed and restrained a vicious cop killer and held him until officers arrived to arrest the suspect.

This history of citizen action goes back to Lexington and Concord and in 1775. There are still many good citizens in this country who are willing to help when asked. Remember, however, that you must first ask them and then direct them.

Check your state statutes for a “Refusal to Aid Officer” statute. Discover if your state or province (for brothers and sisters in Canada) has one. Then consider adding this tool to your tool box when you need back-up “right now!” and there are no uniforms close. When you are alone and the situation is dire, you may discover that you are not alone at all. You may discover instead that you are surrounded by backup — would-be warriors in waiting — who are willing to help if you just ask.
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:13 AM
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Wow, looks like he is right!

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2A:160-17. Authority of officer making arrest; assistance given
Every such peace officer or other person empowered to make the arrest, shall have the same authority, in arresting the accused, to command assistance therein, as peace officers have by law in the execution of any criminal process directed to them, with like penalties against those who refuse their assistance.
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Old 07-30-2010, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob View Post
Wow, looks like he is right!
Didn't know it was required. I did know that many of the laws from 19th century always seemed to have exceptions for concealed carry to "aid an officer" along with "traveling on a journey."
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Old 07-31-2010, 02:00 PM
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So, let's see.

You're not allowed to carry a gun to protect yourself.
They are under no obligation to protect you but they are allowed to carry guns.
But you are under an obligation to protect them.
Hmmmmm...
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Old 07-31-2010, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C. Lind Aitken View Post
But you are under an obligation to protect them.
"Assist" them, I think...as you would/should ANY person in a position that you're able to assist.

For me, I would put this in a convenient place, to bring it out again when we finally DO get CCW in NJ, and they tell us that just because we're allowed to carry now, we're not allowed to intercede in a 3rd party situation...a "Stand In My Shoes" Law, or whatever it's called.
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New Jersey Constitution Article I, [1.]:

All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain natural and *unalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending
life and liberty, of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and of pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness.

*Incapable of being separated, given away, or taken away

The Only Answer to a Bad Guy with a Gun . . . Is a Good Guy with a Gun!

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Old 08-02-2010, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Ektarr View Post
"Assist" them, I think...as you would/should ANY person in a position that you're able to assist.
"Assist" Nice euphemism there. If Officer Friendly is being stomped by five or six 300+ lb members of the local outlaw biker gang, which is a chapter of a national outlaw biker gang, and he requests you to "assist", you will be protecting him from the gang. Exactly what are you, as a law-abiding NJ resident going to do? If an armed, trained LEO, who is a member or the world's biggest street gang, authorized to carry guns, knives and clubs and his fellow members take it very personal when one of their own is attacked (and his attackers know this) can't deal with them, what would be your course of action. Some kind of sand the deck/paint the fence technique?

Assuming there was available some kind of club-like weapon, your only hope would be to land crippling blows before they knew you were there (of course, when the LEO asked for "assistance" that went out the window). But let's suppose you were able to break the knees on every one of them. (and they didn't have any firearms with them-that's wishful thinking: they would have to be assumed to at least have the cop's gun). Now they start suing you. Is the LEO's agency's liability insurance going to cover you, or is you home going to be the gang's next HQ. And that's if they're satisfied with just suing you. Just as other LEOs take personally an attack on any one of them, so would the biker gang.

Let's suppose you subscribe to the notion that it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 and you are carrying illegally. You use your illegal gun stop the attack on the LEO. When his brother officers show up, do you really expect them to merely confiscate the gun and say "Go, and sin no more."?

In any kind of forceful intervention, be it a LEO or just another civilian, do not expect to be given the Key to the City. Before getting involved, be sure you know the "down side". Then decide what you will do. But with this law, you don't have that option.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ektarr View Post
"For me, I would put this in a convenient place, to bring it out again when we finally DO get CCW in NJ, and they tell us that just because we're allowed to carry now, we're not allowed to intercede in a 3rd party situation...a "Stand In My Shoes" Law, or whatever it's called.
Again, the legal researchers might want to look up the NJ statutes on use of deadly force. I believe it defines when you may use deadly force in defense of yourself and in defense of a third party if that third party would have been justified in using deadly force to defend himself.
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Last edited by C. Lind Aitken : 08-02-2010 at 02:21 PM. Reason: grammer
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